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I just love this chapter. I fell in love with Jacob in this book...even though after the Saga I am firmly Team Edward.

He was just so lovely and sweet and I really warmed to him thinking maybe Bella would be better with him...until Alice returned and had her vision :)

I think Bella is sooooo annoying...she is one whiney little b**ch :)

Oh my gosh! ok i love quil and embry so much because they remind me of my best friends.
And i basically love the whole dynamic of everyone in la push.
But more then anything, i love the overwhelming warmth i get in this chapter. Jacob is funny and sweet and warm....and sunny.
Everything about this chapter reminds me of laying on the beach on a sunny day just soaking in the warmth.....

I'm always late in posting to this particular topic but I will do it now. Nevermind that everyone else has moved on to VF Rob. Those pictures are already downloaded to my hard drive.

Most of the quotes I will use will be from Bella's POV of course.

"I'd slept without dreaming. Dreaming or screaming. I didn't trust this to last. It was a slippery, precarious edge that I balanced on, and it wouldn't take much to knock me down."

"I hadn't forgotten the reason for what I was doing. And, even though I was enjoying myself more than I'd thought possible, there was no lessening of my original desire. I still wanted to cheat. It was senseless, and I really didn't care. I was going to be reckless as I could possibly manage in Forks. I would not be the only keeper of an empty contract."

maybe my feelings will change after i get through the books again, but so far up to now.... i STILL don't feel like there is this "Bella is using Jacob" issue! where did this come from????

Bella is just doing what she can to get through the days, and Jake makes her feel better! Up to now... what is so wrong?????? Jake makes her happy, and they are friends. And right now... Edward isn't even here!!!!!!!!!

(i refuse to jump ahead and start talking about eclipse and the whole edward/bella/jacob mess right now.... we're only in ch 6 new moon!)

I totally agree... It's survival instinct.... I think Bella always treated Jake like a friend... Friends should be there to comfort you when you are down... But jake always wanted more. My dissaproval of Bella is when she finds out that jake wants more and her unwillingness to put a stop to it...

im only new at this and seem to be having comment issues. hopefully i can get it sorted out before my boss realises that im not actually doing work.

I believe Bella falling for Jacob is pivotal in the whole saga. Yes, she realises that she loves Jacob, really and truly LOVES him, and yet, it still is nowhere NEAR the love she has for Edward.
If she didnt fall in love with Jacob she would have never known the extent of her love for Edward. She realises this in Eclipse when she tells Jacob her love for him is not enough.

Just focusing on Chapter 6... I think Bella is trying to go forward with her life and Jacob is a welcome distraction. I agree he fills a void and I think her intentions were innocent. He has a crush on her anyway and figures why not, this may be his big chance with her? It's perfectly logical when you have a crush on someone you want to be with them whether they like you or not. I think to say that Bella is using Jacob is a little harsh.

I really could have just said what you said, instead of my long post, and made a valid point. Ugh, well that's a couple minutes of my life I won't get back. lol Oh well, it was all in good fun!

I see your point... You know what, why isn't there an argument as to why jacob used bella? I mean one could really argue that he took advantage of her emotional instability and saw it as an opportunity to try and get with her...

Oh, good point! I like the way you think. Very English Class, I feel like I'm in school. :)

Oooo that's a good one. You should have been here earlier when it all started. I would have loved to seen some of those answers! lol

I'm late too.D:
In these chapter's it's kinda funny reading Bella and Jacobs relationship because in Eclipse half the time Bella is calling Jacob names. And yes, it is so innocent! By reading this chapter, I noticed Jacob became harsher in Eclipse. Was it the change? Was it really the wolf pack that tweaked his personality?

Hmmmm....

Im a first timer commenting, and i just love reading everyone's point of view on characters. The whole saga is something that is very real to a lot of people which is, above everything else, a testament to SM's writing.

I swore to myself that i wouldnt, but I was compelled to comment on this section; whether Bella was being selfish or using Jacob.

I think we are all forgetting one very important fact.

Bella is going to make mistakes, she is going to be flawed. Bella is the ONE thing that the Cullens and the Pack are not: Human.

Definitely agree with you. She is 100% human and not perfect. Just like all of us. Even the vamps and wolfs make mistakes. It's just a part of being real.

Wow... Good point. The girl is human after all. I've been a Bella before...

We've all been Bella's before. Humans can be the worst type of monsters of all....
In saying that, Edward and Jacob both did some fairly horrible things, whether they thought they were right or wrong. Bella was just doing what ever it took to survive. We've all done that before too....

Dang i'm late! Anyway-

I wasn't numb anymore. Tonight would, no doubt, be as horrific as last night. I lay down on my bed and curled into a ball in preparation for the onslaught. I squeezed my eyes shut and....the next thing I knew, it was morning.
I stared at the pale silver light coming through my window, stunned.
For the first time in more than four months, I'd slept without dreaming. Dreaming or screaming. I couldn't tell which emotion was stronger-the relief or the shock......

With that, I was sorta greatful for Jacob, just like Bella was.

me too, felt the same way.

Warning: The following are my opinions and I have every right to them:P lol


*Bella did not consistently use Jacob. Period.
I think one reason that everyone is debating this issue is that EVERYONE has their own opinion of what it means to 'use someone'. (I think using someone is when you use someone to get what you want. You do this without regards of the other person's feelings and only care about yourself and getting what you want.)

I cannot, and will not, deny the fact that Bella's initial interest in Jacob was purely to use his mechanical skills to hear Edward. However, after the following quote I no longer felt like she was using him.
---------
" I realized that I was pleased to see him. This knowledge surprised me. I smiled back, and something silently clicked into place, like two corresponding puzzle pieces. I'd forgotten how much I really liked Jacob Black. "
---------
From then on Bella was no longer just thinking about what she wanted, although she never did forget. She was always concerned for Jacob and his feelings. They both enjoyed eachother's company. Bella had even said that Jacob was one of the only people she felt she could relate to. How could she be using him if she genuinely cared about him and his feelings. She even made it very clear at the movies that she wasn't going to feel like that for him. Jacob from that point on is VERY aware of how Bella feels and still continues as if nothing was said.

*Bella is selfish.
Every single character in this book is selfish. It is a natural human flaw. I don't believe she is any more selfish than the next person. She went all the way to Italy to save Edward, even though she still believed he didn't want her, because she didn't want him to die. I'm not saying she doesnt have her moments.. the whole 4 months after Edward left were selfish. She was even getting annoyed of herself as she realized how she had been acting. However, I (nor anyone else) have never felt the kind of love between her and Edward. Even Marcus said he had never seen a bond as strong as theirs (& that's within thousands of years people lol). I know some people think they're love is corrupted but how can we give an opinion on a, fantasy based, love that we have never felt before?

I never thought Bella was using Jacob.
To start with she was, but she genuinly cares about him.
After all, isn't she the one who was trying to call him after Edward came back, and HE was the one refusing to see her?
That's why I never understood why people feel bad for Jake at the end of new moon.
I've seen people say 'Shes like "it's been great but edwards back"'
That's not the way i saw it.
didn't she say 'were still friends right?' but he was the one who said no.
And also, i agree with you on the selfish note, everyone does it. Even Edward has a little bit in him haha :)

Funny question at the end , wasn't that whole thing your opinion on a fantasy based love story LOL!!!

Yes, but not all aspects of this story are fantasy based. A lot of it is relatable.

Also, I wasn't saying that we can't form our opinions on fantasy... just on what it's like to have a love like Edward and Bella's. I just put "fantasy based" to make clear that I know love like this doesn't exist and avoid those comments. Obviously, that was unavoidable.

I was just teasing LOL! Some people on here do take this made up story to personal & they do tend to treat it like it's real & it's NOT. That kind of worries me LOL

I figured. lol

I don't think they treat it real, I think that some people are just very passionate about it, you know? Combine passionate and someone who enjoys a good debate and I could understand why it make seem they think it's real. That's a good thing though, it says a lot about the series if it can get people to react that way.

well said. Agree with you on some of your points. Except for the selfish part.

Stephenie's meyers website; Eclipse FAQ
What are the characters' biggest mistakes in Eclipse, their tragic flaws?

Bella's is a lack of self-knowledge; she never would have pursued her friendship with Jacob if she had realized how much more than friendship it really was. You don't give up your friends when you fall in love; however, you do give up your other romantic interests. If Bella had understood herself better, she could have saved everyone a lot of heartbreak. Sometimes that happens when you try to do the right thing.

Being selfish and having a lack of self-knowledge completely contradict eachother. You can't be selfish if you're not even aware of your own wants, feelings, or motivations.

I would definitely agree that Bella's tragic flaw is her lack of self-knowledge, not only in Eclipse, but in the entire series.

when in doubt, ask SM. lol

yes!

lol

glad to see MEC reading all the comments on her ch 6 post :) yayyy!!!!!!

I just wanted to say Angela's not selfish. I can't think of anything selfish Angela ever did. lol So not ALL the characters in this book are selfish. ;-)

I wasn't trying to call everyone selfish.. let me rephrase.. everyone has selfish tendencies. It is what makes us human. Just because we weren't showed it, doesn't necessarily mean that Angela hasn't had her moments.

Quil and Embry... that's all I can say. Those two were GREAT! They are like the super cool, chill, fun friends that everyone always wanted. :-)

Just curious... did they rename Quil in the movie? Is that where that stupid "Jared" came from? I hate when people get rid of unique names. I have a friend named Vadius, and he goes by "Josh" because he thinks Vadius is wierd. ALWAYS ROCK THE UNIQUE NAME!

I agree!! LOVES the unique names!

Jared is one of the original members of the wolf pack. It was Sam, Paul, and Jared that helped look for and found Bella the night Edward left. Embry joined next, then Jacob. Quil doesn't become a member of the pack until Eclipse

Oh yeah! That's right. Thanks. I've been wracking my brain about that. I always forget Jared.

This is one of my favorite chapters, just because it has one of my favorite quotes about Jake. And the fact that he's so happy and Bella is getting better makes me happy too.

As for the question about her using him. I think that she always had in a way, from the very beginning back on First Beach, but that's just Bella... She's a selfish character in that way with him. A lot like Catherine Earnshaw in Wuthering Heights who she's been compared to.
But it's not like Jacob's an idiot who doesn't know what she's doing. He know's she's messed up. And he also know's that being with him is making her better. So he's happy to let her use him in any way she needs. Jacob just wants for her to be happy. That make's him happy. And that's why I love him :)

Remembers that we are talking about a fictional character and having fun. :)

How many of us have ever been dealt with a devestating blow or loss. It is called grieving! I don't think that Bella is being selfish at all. I think that it is survival and further brave to attempt to reach out and come out of it. Of course there is the element of wanting to hear Edward's voice, but again, grieving. What wouldn't you do to escape that kind of pain?! I think that despite the pain, motives, etc. on either of their parts there is a genuine love and friendship that develops. It's also not like she was being unfaithful to Edward - he left her. (And she still saves him in the end! - Don't hate the girl!)

I liked the playful banter about the ages. Its sounds like a discussion I would have with my friends. I agree with most of what everyone is saying, that yeah, at first Bella was only using Jacob, but ended up really liking him as a friend and someone should 'didn't have to pretend for'. She is finally realizing that if she doesn't try so hard to be normal, should can enjoy life.
I think the comment about being packed in Styrofoam peanuts is my favorite of the chapter.

I love spaghetti. And I like Jake when he's just being a good friend, before he starts trying to kiss her. But the chapters without Edward are still very hard to read

They are because it's just a bunch of fluff at first. But, after Bella realizes that she like to hang out with Jake and eventually the gang, then it starts to get good.

I just thought about something, everyone says that Bella is using Jake up until she figures out she likes to spend time with him. I believe that because even after she finds out what he is and they tell her about Victoria, i believe she is scared and wouldn't want to be alone so she still sticks to Jake.

I love Jake at these beginning stages although i perfer Edward. Jake was fun to begin with and yes i blame Bella for lrading him on and making him believe he had a chance.

Quil and Embry are my favorite, beside from Seth in EC. The whole garage scene was lighthearted.

The last couple of pages of chapter 6 depress me, because it's like she's starting over. It's like Edward was never there, like the last year didn't happen. It makes me sad. And Jacob is a good friend, but he did kind of mess everything up when he started pursuing her in a romantic way. I know you can't help how you feel, but if he would have waited until she started showing that kind of interest in him, then things probably would have went different. Well, actually it would have ended the same way, except there would be no serious drama between Bella and Jacob when Bella left to save Edward.

What choice has he given her? She really is starting over. Yes, it's sad. But it's real. Up until this chapter I was sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting for her to do this. It's heartbreaking, I don't really want to see it, but it has to be done. Jacob did throw a monkey wrench into things by attempting to take it to the next level, but she let him in the end. The whole fallout from this (ahem, Eclipse) lays on both of their shoulders.

I hate it in Eclipse when he forces her to kiss him! What kind of friend does that? He becomes a jerk after he turns into a wolf I think. =p That's why I'm team Edward all the way! lol

He becomes a jerk when he realizes he's in love with a woman he never had a shot with, and probably never will.

He had to prove to her that she loved him too and not just as a brother. She was so consumed by Edward, she couldn't feel her other feelings. Yeah it was wrong, but it WORKED. She DID kiss him back...even imagined be pregnant with his kid. Put yourself in Jake's shoes....if you were about to lose the person you were in love with, what would you do? And don't give me any "i'd be selfless crap" lol

I would be totally, completely selfless.

LOL. ;P

Liiiieeeeesssss!!!!!! Lol ok let's make this with real life people. If Robert Pattinson was in love with me but u knew he loved u too, u wud just give him up without a fight? I think not lol

Yes. I'm all kinds of awesome. LOL

Okay, no. hehe.

I'm in a weird mood tonight!

Lmao! Point proven =P

I agree with you. Except he never had Bella, and that's why he wanted her to kiss him. He wanted to break the spell Edward has on her, and when he realized he couldn't then he got desperate. I totally understand his actions. I may not like them, but I understand them. I would probably do the same thing. I think, when desperate enough to save the person I love, I'd do just about anything.

Exactly. Edward had an advantage. He already had Bella so the fight was harder for Jake.

My fave line from this chapter:

"I was beginning to get annoyed with myself. I might as well have been packed in Styrofoam peanuts through the last semester."

It's hilarious, and it really shows just how out of it and disconnected she was for 4 months. She was physically there, but not in any other sense. Just existing and being shipped along throught her life.... just like a Styrofoam peanut!

Yeah, when I read it today I laughed out loud.

I loved this chapter. So light and carefree. And happy laughter and spaghetti.

NOT. I'M BORED!!!! If I wanted sappiness and bike fixing I would watch American Choppers dang it! Where is the violence? The murderous plotting? The growling Edward/anyone growling at all? WTH??? ;)

Here's the thing about Bella in NM -- I think she is still in such shock that Edward is really never coming back that the idea really never crosses her mind that Jacob might have real feelings for her until they go to the theater, and even then she is in denial. Denial is the biggest reason for the next two books: her denial of Jacob's feelings, her denial of HER feelings, etc. Up until then, I understand why she felt it was okay to let him take care of her. Holding hands, nice words and such. And let's be honest here -- he wasn't complaining.

We can throw stones at Bella all we want (I did it when I read NM, that's for sure) but she dealt with her pain in the most destructive way possible in the end -- just like the rest of us could've done. That's why people are so up in arms about it. Bella could be any one of us, making the same mistake over, and over, using the one person we don't want to even though it's wrong.

So, yes. She's using him. But he's using her. it's that simple. Drama, commence. :)

Btw, I meant IN THE BOOK drama, not any other variety. :)

One of my fav parts ot this chapter is: ''Jacob was simply a perpetually happy person, and he carried that happiness with him like an aura, sharing it with whoever was near him. Like an earthbound sun, whenever someone was within his gravitational pull, Jacob warmed them. It was natural, a part of who he was. No wonder I was so eager to see him''.
Personally I'm team Edward, but I love Jacob as well. I mean, how can you not love Jacob, he's such a warm (:P) and kind person...

I'm Team WhatevergetsTaylorthemostnekkidinNM. ;)

This has to be one of my favourite chapters in the book because no one is really worrying about anything. Everyone is so care free and normal. Quil and Embry are so funny and remind me of some of my friends which brings some normality to the story.

Even though Bella is kind of using Jacob, i think at this point it's ok because no one is really getting hurt. Jacob doesn't seem to mind. This is where i loved Jacob and Bella, where their relationship was purely based on friendship with some occasional flirting. It's was fun and sweet.
And this point i don't think she was leading him on.

But yeh this is a good chapter where there is actually something to laugh at.

You can't go wrong with Team Alice or Team Julia!!! heck even Team Rosalie is consistent, hehe. Everyone else seems to have issues HAHAHAHA

Not Team Rose, she has major issues and they all seem to steam off of self esteem and jealousy

I think if Bella would had been this perfect goody too shoes, the story would had been boring. Yes she began using Jacob, and she felt guilty about that, that did change when she realized she liked spending time not just with Jake but also his friends. If she had gotten over Edward, than the whole point of New Moon would had been wasted, even if Jake helped ease the pain that Edward cause, in the end Jake was not Edward, neither was Mike for that matter. She couldn't let go of Edward. besides there is a song that goes "Crazy little thing called Love". Jake wasn't enough for her to forget Eddie.

I agree. She was trying to get better, and was using Jake to do it. However, Jake was more than willing to be used and also used her broken, fragile state of mind and heart to his advantage. He knew WHY she wanted to see him so much, and knew that her depression over losing Edward made her need him.... and he didn't care.

He said all along (starting at the theatre) that he was well aware of all of it, and that he'd rather continue to persue her "annoyingly persistent"...

I love that Bella is flawed and HUMAN. HALE YEAH she used Jake to feel less depressed. He's sweet, fun, funloving and HOT AS HALE... and she believed Edward was never coming back. At least in NM. If I were her, I probably would have done the same (at least in NM, Eclipse is a different story).

I guess Jacob knew why Bella spends so much time with him, but even if she maybe wants to use him to get through losing Edward, she likes Jacob, she did from the beginning, he is just an amazing friend. She realises that she doesnt want to lose him...

forks = la push oopsies!!!

also with the reprocussions of ditching her friends... yes lets be honest when you get a new boyfriend you spend so much time trying to get to know them and learn everything! everything is new and so exciting.. and im sure its 100000000 times more exciting when he looks like robert pattinson and comes in the form of a vampy!

but... to the degree she ditched them was unnatural.... she probabley passed them by in corridors without even waving or saying hello.... i think she kids herself when she pretends its "for their sake".... she thinks she is saving them grief of loosing her when she day comes thats shes a vamp... because edward never promised her that he would change her... she just cant see that she is a tremendously selfish person.

ill give her credit though she is strong, and it took guts to stand up to that ******************** lauren for laughing at little angela!!! so she redeems herself slightly....

but even later when she helps angela with the graduation letters... she was using her then? to get away for the tension that would follow between edward for going to forks and only because she was being forced to by charlie to socalise as a condition of her freedom....

***hides from bella lovers***

Yeah, she has her selfish moments, and her selfless moments. I'm only to chapter 5, so I need to catch up. =)
The cliff diving scene was one of those selfish moments. She should've thought about the current and stuff before she threw herself off the cliff! She should've known that she would probably drown...good thing Jacob was there. I think he's too good for her in this book. She don't deserve him.

When is she self less in this book? Saving Edward at the end of the book is selfish because she wants him back...

I agree. I think people really really want to believe that Bella and Edward's love is pure, but if they were to realize the selfish motivations behind their actions it would ruin the story behind it.
I also feel that because of Bella's perspective of Edward we as readers get an extremely biased opinion of him.

Love, in and of itself is selfish. That person belongs to you in a completely unexplainable and unbelievable way. Because their actions are done out of love, it moves them beyond selfish. It doesn't excuse those actions by any means, but it quantifies them to something beyond selfishness. At least, I think so.

And ita about the bias in Edward's favor. If the roles had been reversed, and Jacob was her great love and Edward was the guy who was pining for her, people would be far more in Jacob's favor because of the desperate way she loves him. Edward would be the thorn in the side, the other option to wonderful to bare. Not that he isn't already. ;)

I do think we agree...kind of? :) I think doing something out of love for another is very subjective depending on what that action is. So some actions are beyond selfishness and somehow move into the realm of selflessness...but not all! No matter how much you love another.

And I do agree on your second point. If the rolls were in fact reversed or Bella's reaction to Edward leaving was different (I want to say healthier, but I'll stay with different) then us as an audience would get a totally different story. It would be fascinating...I suppose that's what FF is for.

THANK YOU!!!! I always said that!!! If SM wrote a book about Jake and Nessie from Nessie's point of view, I bet people would see Jake in a while different light. Bella is BIASED. She is so consumed by Edward...of course readers would view Edward as she did...which was in a much better light than Jake was put in. Some people saw him as pushy and obnoxious. I pushed passed Bella's view and saw him as persistent and determined.

I kinda of disagree even jacob, in BD recognized this intense love and dynamic between E&B. He commented on it. I think that Bella's perspective on Edward was biased but not far fetched..

Ehhh...we'll have to agree to disagree lol I REALLY think because we're seeing everything thru Bella's eyes (the person who has been completely consumed by this guy since like day 1), of course Edward would be described as this absolutely maginificent selfless God. I really had to push past her POV and try to see things for what they were. If I didn't and just saw the "God" that is Edward, I'd have been Team Edward. But I saw past Bella's POV and stood back and examined everything...Jake came out on top =P

Exactly. Jake was pushy and arrogant at times BECAUSE that's how Bella saw him. However I read most of the series without being "in" Bella's head so I didn't see it so cut and dry. Plus Bella exaggerated EVERYTHING why wouldn't she do the same with Jake?

Exaggerated someone kissing her against her will?
Exaggerated someone threatening to kill himself so that he could get his way? Exaggerated Someone who constantly used the guilt card ? I think those were the most obnoxious and arrogant of things. Also, Bella discribes Edward as this perfect person, but his dialogue in the book defends that he doesn't see himself that way at all. This is why I think it's a shame SM isn't working towards finishing Midnight Sun. I think we would appreciated EC a little more or at least have a better grasp on who he is as a character. His head is so much better than being in Bella's. He's honest about his flaws and insecurities.

I don't think Bella's this great person. She's selfish and a host of other things, but I did see Jake, mostly in eclipse as pushy and arrogant. Really he had an issue w/boundaries. For me he redeemed himself in BD. I loved pre-wolf Jake. I too read the story from outsides B's head. This is my take.

Yeah, I'm not getting into a discussion regarding Jake's behavior. We see
this story from two totally different perspectives. You think I'm nuts for
preferring the physical offender and I think it's odd that you like the
controlling, bordering on abusive vampire.

I'm not trying to brush you off but I've had this "talk" with so many people
and it really goes nowhere. I think it's cool how we all seem to enjoy these
books for our own personal reasons. Some of us bring our own life
experiences to form our opinions on these characters, and others just enjoy
them for what they are.

Yeah these arguments go no where. We are set our ways. I don't think your nuts for your preference, I just wanted to understand your dismissiveness of Jake's "perceived" obnoxious actions and what I could argue as him being a bordering sexual assaulter, and actual emotional abuser. Manipulation and passive aggressive behavior is never a healthy component in any kind of relationship.

But then, I don't see Edward as a "bordering on abusive vampire". His actions are from places of good intentions of protecting the object of his affection , this object who happens to be a fragile being in comparison to those in a world of mystical creatures that she so often finds herself surrounded by. His concerns were legitimate from his perspective (his ignorance) and he's adjusted when he found his concerns to be unnecessary. He's definitely prone to overreaction, but actually close to emotionally or physically abusive. I don't see it.

Yeah I totally get it, we don't see eye to eye. :-) Do u like Emmett, Daddy C, and Sam at least? I love those characters.

A-FRIGGIN-men!

This is what confuses me. You, along with countless other people who think this too, disagree Bella and Edwards love. What is it about the series that makes you love it so much then? The tiny bits and pieces that Jacob or any of the wolf pack are in the books? How did you even manage to get past Twilight if that's the case. Don't mistake my frustration for anger please. I just honestly, don't understand. If you don't care for characters like Bella.. why read an entire series inside of her mind? (minus the Jacob part in BD)

Well, first off I've read MANY various types of romance novels. I came into this series with my own personal likes and dislikes in how I want my romance stories to go. Reading Twilight was fun, it seemed like an average romance written from a teenage girls perspective. I do not necessarily disagree with their love, I just don't buy what Bella's saying some of the time. Her endless descriptions of the perceived perfections of Edward become old, annoying and eventually boring. Twilight was a fun quick read. Nothing too exciting but I enjoyed it. NM on the other hand was totally unexpected. I didn't expect Jake to become as prominent of a character. And yes, I was drawn to him. I liked how Bella behaved around him, I liked what he brought to the story so I did find the parts with him in it more interesting especially more than Bella going on and on about how great Edward was.
I think this series is much more than just about B/E's relationship. I took enjoyment out of it from other areas, where you took enjoyment out of the romance aspect. I just find that if I want to read a romance than I'm going to look elsewhere because there are more intriguing "romance" stories that involve characters that I like a little more.

Have you read the latest DG about Jamie and Claire? I cannot wait to get it!

Thanks. I agree that the series is much more than their relationship, but it is the very core of it's existence. I did enjoy the romance aspect of this book you're right however I don't really look at it as a 'romance'. I can't exactly describe what I would call it other than fantasy, I guess. I'm curious though, what romance stories do you enjoy? Besides the classic Jane Austen books, I have found that I really like Nicholas Sparks.

I enjoy reading actual "romance" novels (I do love Austen too)...like in the
romance section of a bookstore. I tend to find historical romances really
fun because I love learning about history, but I do like a good modern day
romance too. Jude Devereaux, Julie Garwood, Karen Robards, Susan Elizabeth
Phillips are all talented. I have yet to read it, and I want to, but I've
heard one of the best romances is the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon. I
especially like getting my hands on a good series...that's another reason
why the Twilight series interested me.

She does not save Edward bc she wants him back. She saves him bc she cares about him, she loves him, and she doesn't want him to die, even if he did break her heart and did not want to be w/her. She doesn't even expect him to come back and be with her after she saves him in Italy. She talks about this over and over again chapters 21, 22, and 23. She thought his paying her attention was due to the guilt that had thinking she had killed herself.

My point is that I do not think her motivation to save Edward is bc she wants him back.

Can't wait to get to those chapters again and reread from your perspective. I know each time I read this book I get pissed that she abandons her father and all her new found friends that pulled her out more trouble while they were all mourning a terrible loss and Jake who asked her not to go into the house with Alice in the first place to do just that.

How is that not selfish?

So I think the argument was that she goes to save Edward bc she is selfish, selfish bc she wants him back. I think that was what you were saying, right? That was what I was attempting to dabate. So No, I don't think that was the case. She is a selfish person, but I don't think she was selfish for going and trying to do what she could to save someone's life- Someone that she cared deeply for and the someone who has saved her life on more than one occasion (putting himself and his family in jeopardy bc of it) oh and i'm not saying she owed him anything either.

I understand that everything happened so quickly and I think maybe her being caught up in the stress of the whole situation and worrying about being on time, she failed to dot all the I's and cross all the T's. The least she could have done was use Alice's cell phone to call her father and Jake to let them know her progress during her abrupt absence. However, being in a field where I have to asses behavior, I can understand that this inexperienced girl may not get it all. She has not been through something so pressing.

In Twilight, she thought about both her parents when she had to leave when James was trying to kill her. I think she handled that situation with some responsibility. So, we know that she is capable, but here in this situation she missed a lot. Would it be an illogical assessment to conclude that she was so in shock, fear, and stressed out about the quickly approaching death of a love if she did not get to him in time? When ppl deal with highly intense stressors, their mind becomes consumed, and sometimes so consumed they forget stuff...really important stuff. Like babies in car, food on the stove, calling parent when you take off and only left a note....etc

I ask though, how selfish would it have been that she did nothing to help someone who was going to hurt/off themselves bc of her--and she knows this and would have chosen to do nothing? If anything it was a nasty catch--22 and she went w/a choice that she felt was the most critical in the situation, she chose to leave her family and friends to try and help to save the life of someone she loved--this while knowing the danger she would be exposed to and doing it without expecting him to take her back. That act was selfless. It wasn;t like she ran off for some unsubstantial reason. this was so much more serious than putting herself in danger like so many other teens to hurt herself (like doing drugs, running away from home just bc...etc)

I guess you could argue that it was selfish bc she didn't think about how her actions would affect those she left behind (here is where dotting i's and T's needed to be addressed) especially if she died in Italy, but lets not forget that we are speaking of her SOULMATE, the LOVE OF HER LIFE. She feels he's that important to put her life in jeopardy to save, who are we to judge her for doing that? She's grown, 18 yrs old and she had every right to make the choice she did. What makes her selfish about that choice?

Either choice (to go to Italy or not go), i guess could be looked at as selfish then...

Oh and in regards to Jake asking her not to go into the house and she does anyway. She feels that she knows who is waiting for her. She asks him to stay bc she does not feel that she is in danger and he chooses to leave. Why is it selfish that she wants to go and greet the visitor, in her house? She felt Jake was being paranoid and I totally understand why Jake feels that way (although a part of it had to do with his prejudices too). If her going was selfish a part of him asking her not to go in was also selfish. We all have that gift of being responsible for the path we choose for her life. Free will. This is Bella's life and every choice she makes is going to hurt someone, you cant make everyone happy. Yes timing sucked bc ppl were in the midst of grieving, but at the same time a life was on the line.

HEY ! At least we found 3 we can love! LOL

Sam, Daddy C, and Emmit! I am so glad my name is on the fence! LOL

I so agree with you!

Sam, Daddy C and Emmit - pretty flawless. I think Daddy C does a good showing he had flaws and worked on them.

I don't know about Esme, though. She did try to commit suicide - that's might be a small flaw that she has since outgrown... LOL

Yeah Esme is suspect, and she would do the selfish thing to protect her family by any means necessary. He back story is quite tragic so we know she had issues. She was in an abusive marriage and then her savior (her baby) died. If she felt that was all she had and she lost it and wanted to end her life bc of it she may stiff have some issues lurking. Now Emmett and Daddy C. I love those Vampires (tear) they're super!

I totally see what you are saying on the top of your reply. BUT Bella had responsibility of her mother (Because that is how she describes it and it is how the conversations around Renee are worded when Bella speaks with her.) AND with Charlie (taking over grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, etc) So I still think Bella was being irrational with not calling. Yes, I could take it easier on Bella BUT this could have been slightly different - a quick note on the fridge - 'Dad, I am with Alice. Will be call later' - Gives Charlie a clue, still allows for the blow up at the end of the book and the subsequent grounding without making Bella look as selfish.

As to Jake, absolutely he had prejudices against the family. In addition to being the 'cold ones' whom their tribe is sworn to protect innocent lives from, this family who supposedly loves Bella left her devastated with no contact for over six months. While Jake was a total a$$ in the situation and everyone hates him for it, he was trying to protect the woman he loves and had been saving non-stop for how long? Was he wrong? yes was his intention pure? According to SM in NM Jake is flawless (I don't buy that BTW). And I totally think he should have stayed, at least outside, in case Bella needed help... instead of running away to pout.

I totally agree with you that Bella could have called Charlie or told him she would call him as soon as she could. I think she left that responsibility on Jake to fill him in with as much as he could, which was irresponsible. I'm just blaming the stress of the situation on her lack of doing that.

Nope, and Jake was not wrong for how he felt. I stated that i knew why he had reservations about her going in to the house. A part of his reservations did come from a pure place..
LOL... I think the characters with the least flaws are Daddy C., Sam, and maybe even Emmett and Esme.

Me either. Even though she can be selfISH (and who can't, really) her love for Edward is selfLESS. The way she needs him may not be, but the lengths she will go to to protect him most definitely are. Their co-dependency is unhealthy at best, but loving each other makes them selfless.

Yeah, i agree. She did it out of love. She may also felt a little guilty that she was the cause of him runnning to the Volturi asking to follow the death of his love. It's selfless and i believe she would have done the same for Jacob so we cann't say it's because she wanted him back.

I read this sad story on FanFict called Question my Soul (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4756903/1/Question_...) it's really sad and the scene is almost the same in New Moon, with one dieing the other wanting to follow right after. A good read

Well, yes, she wants him back, but remember she STILL thinks he doesn't want her. When Alice mentioned on the plane that she would change Bella herself the first thing Bella thought of was chasing Edward and hoping he wouldn't be "distracted" any more. She was saving him even though she was pretty convinced he wanted nothing to do with her again. She just needed him to be alive, because she loved him, even if he didn't love or want her anymore.

I've gotta disagree with you there, she saves him because otherwise he'd DIE. Thinking she was only going in there to get him back would mean she thinks her self a match to the Volturi. And we all know she doesn't think that. She put herself in the line of fire (again) to save him. Getting to see him again was... an added bonus. ;)

I still think it was mean of her to do that to Jacob. She shouldn't have let him hold her hand so much in the beginning.

even Bella admitted that was wrong..... but she did it anyway..

As far as using Jake... I think she knew a little bit that she was planning to do so, but ended up realizing she really liked him and wanted to spend time with him.

I like the bantering between Jake and Bella about their ages.. knocking years off for not being able to do something, or adding some for stuff they can do. So I guess that would include going to the dump.. which I really wouldn't mind seeing. heh.

The light-hearted bickering between Jake, Embry, and Quil.. after Bella leaves. They tease him about her and she leaves laughing. Sweet!

Pg. 148 - "Jacob grabbed my hand and towed me out of the garage and through the trees, his feet finding the familiar path easily. His hand was rough, and very warm. Despite the path, we were both tripping over our feet in the darkness. So we were also both laughing when the house came into view. The laughter did not go deep; it was light and superficial, but still nice. I was sure he wouldn't notice the faint hint of hysteria. I wasn't used to laughing, and it felt right and also very wrong at the same time. Charlie was standing under the little back porch, and Billy was sitting in the doorway behind them.

"Hey Dad," we both said at the same time, and that started us laughing again.

Charlie stared at me with wide eyes that flashed down to note Jacob's hand around mine." -This really shows how Jake is helping her and it's nice to see the laughing between them, even if it scares her a little. And I find it interesting that Charlie took note of the hand-holding.. seems like he had an inkling of what was to come between them.

The whole spaghetti dinner to follow. I like the idea of that.. light and fun.

The bit about Bella talking to her friends again.. especially sticking up for Angela. I like their interaction and how sweet Angela is.

bella used him, lets face it guys... she is the most selfish person in the book that at times i have had to put new moon and eclipse down for fear of throwing it against a wall!!

jacob initally was too caught up in just getting to see her again to really notice he was being used... but i think it becomes clear and he eventually realises.... he is very young but picks up on a lot.

she shouldnt have held hands with him and led him on but she did anyway ... she gave the dog a treat instead of a bone, because she knew by giving him little bits he would stick around ( not that he would ever have left) and he could continue to make her happy instead of dealing with her own problems. she realised how selfish she was in the sickening scene in eclipse....

i think edward is by far the best most righteous character between the triangle...

bella aggrovates me so much.... but i do start to like her again during the breaking dawn....SOWI!!!!!

I agree, she did use him the entire time. he is the yougest in the love triangle and he is going through fast forward puberty (wolf-puberty lol), so the difficult time he was having through out newmoon is understandable. bella gave him little hints to make him think he had a chance so he wouldnt leave her side, she needed him and she is sooo self absorbed and self-ish to the point were she dosnt even CONSIDER his feeling in all of this even in the end of new moon when she breaks his heart, she still thinks its all about how its causing her pain, but its not Jacobs fault he was brought into this mess.
oh and bella deserved that forced kiss in eclipse, of course hes gonna think he has a chance and think he can kiss her, she made him think she needed him just as much as she needed edward.

I agree that INITIALLY she was using him. I completely disagree that she did it all through the series. She likes being around Jacob and enjoys his company. Bella made it VERY clear to him that she loved Edward, and he still hung around. That's not her fault.

How can you say she used him in Eclipse? What did she use him for exactly? I think sometimes people are miss using the whole "Bella used Jacob" senario. Jacob was 100% aware of Bella's intentions the entire time. (minus the initial biking stuff)

ahhhhhhhh, i wanna go to the premiere!
volvo has a contest for two ticketsssss... EEEPPPPPPPP
go go go!! enter!!!
someone's gotta win it, and i hope its someone from here :)

whatdrivesedward.com

this the chapter we get to meet the Bad@ss that is LEah ...and little seth!!
and this where Bella starts to feel like a real human again, BUT note that she is also using jacob to get a piece of Edward, with the whole dirt bike thing.

and the Pack boys before transformation were really funny and dorky i loved that about them.

i like there little conversation about the age thing! it was preety funny!!
*By the time we got back to La Push, I was twenty-three and he was thirty—he was definitely weighting skills in his favor.*

I love Seth! I think he's adorable. :) The boy they picked to play Seth is also adorable!!! I think he fits Seth perfectly.

i know Boo Boo is sooo adorably cute!!.cant wait to see him as seth!!...

I read the first 4 chapters... let me know when you arrive in Italy ;)

This is a total change of topic, but I think Bella used Jacob from the beginning. I don't blame her, I probably would have done the same thing if I was in that much pain. But he didn't seem to mind. =)

"I remembered the first day I came to Forks HS-how desperately I wished I could turn into gray, fade into the wet concrete of the sidewalk like an over sized chameleon.It seemed I was getting that wish answered, a year late".


She is feeling the reprocussions from blowing her friends off for Edward. That's tough.. but im sure we all in RL have done this at one time, I know I have.

Yeah this chapter is the start of Bella.. being a bit happier. Shes not pretending
to smile. She enjoys Jake and his company and he is good to her. Its after he becomes Wolf that IMO he changes into a obnoxious person.

I agree. I know that a lot of people say that Bella used Jacob but I don't feel it's anywhere near as malicious as some think. Yes, at first Bella was using Jacob when she brought the bikes to him purely to get the rush so she could hear Edward. However, I think after spending that initial time with him she goes back not only for her original goal but because she loves being around him. She doesn't pretend to like Jake or that she enjoys being around him.. she just does.

She also said in the book that Jake was one of the only true friends she had, one of the few people she found herself relating to.

Ok so it's from the same shoot, not the same one.
*embraces30yro* Yes Jake becomes hella obnoxious post transformation. Utterly annoying!

Hey! I swore I was the only one with this avi....your cheating!
*runs to the corner crosses arms and pouts*

LOL actually this is photoshooped.. its def different than yours.

ohh ohh ohh.. i'll brb.. goes to get book...LOL

....'While he worked, Jacob chattered happily, needing only the lighest of nudges from me to keep the conversation rolling.'
That part is really sweet, Jacob was so happy and carefree. 8)

I'm already in Italy! Yes I read fast, now I think the mystery of Harry's heart attack will be solved in the movie.

I am going to be so mad if they say he dies because Leah is a wolf! Because that is soo wrong. His grandfather was a shapeshifter and he would be thrilled his daughter was strong enough to be one! I think too he would be even more happy that this is the reason why Sam couldn't imprint on her. As part of the council he was aware of the wolves and the imprinting. He was not allowed to tell his daughter why her heart was broken.

I think having to keep that from his daughter caused more than harm than her phasing did!

i read somewhere that the story in the movie is supposed to be that Harry dies because he seen Victoria and knew she was a Vamp. IDK that's just one of the many rumors about the movie i heard.

How would he know Victoria's a vamp??...Unless she was like ''Hey, have you seen Bella Swan, I'm looking for her because I wanna kill her and drink her blood''...lol

I like that better. Though I hope the heart attack is not a cover story for Victoria eating him - the way the salmon thing is a cover for Emily's face...

HA! good one but IDK i told you i read it somewhere. Anyways Harry was an elder just like BIlly. The same way Billy knew the Cullens were Vamps, their smell and the way they look, anyone in the know would know how a Vamp looks and remember Vamps and Wolves hate the smell of eachother. Even before Jake was a wolf he didn't like the smell of Bella's "perfume", which was the Cullen's scent on her.

But, when they add parts in the movie, it makes it harder to see because it wasn't like that in the book, or told to us.

Btw since you mentioned the movie, I'm so looking forward to seeing the garage part..where Billy calls Bella's name and Jake takes Bella hand and he towed her out of the garage and trough the trees, I would soo love to see Billy's face when he sees that Bella's finally laughing and Jake's holding her hand...lol

I love reading these summaries and opinions from you guys.

The hole in my chest is far less cavernous in this sense. I'm still reeling over EC not existing, y'all.

"There were too many of us for the kitchen table, so Charlie and Harry brought chairs out to
the yard, and we ate spaghetti off plates on our laps in the dim light from Billy's open door.
The men talked about the game, and Harry and Charlie made fishing plans. Sue teased her
husband about his cholesterol and tried, unsuccessfully, to shame him into eating something
green and leafy. Jacob talked mostly to me and Seth, who interrupted eagerly whenever
Jacob seemed in danger of forgetting him. Charlie watched me, trying to be inconspicuous
about it, with pleased but cautious eyes.
It was loud and sometimes confusing as everyone talked over everyone else, and the laughter
from one joke interrupted the telling of another. I didn't have to speak often, but I smiled a
lot, and only because I felt like it.
I didn't want to leave."
I like this part.At least Bella had a great time with her new friends.Friens are always great.

It's November!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How long have we wished for November to hurry, and finally it is here!!

19 MORE DAYS!!! :)

*gasp*
You CHANGED your avy!!
Love it!

Thanks! I love it too! lol

But I'll prob bring the old one back, so no one take it! lol

Ahem. *thud*

(me hitting the ground)

VF is gonna send me into cardiac failure. I forkin' LOVE that picture! :)

LMAO!   I have to be careful, if I look at it too much, I might faint!  lol

Yeah, I have hot Rob fainting syndrome. It's contagious I guess.

*hands CJean dose of Airborne*
*realizes Rob's hotness is immune to medicine*
*hands paper fan to revive with*

:)

LOL!
Give 'em both a chance. A few days THIS one, then the sexy jaw, and back again to this one. LOL

Exactly!!! :)

:D my friend called me at 12:01 am and decided to scream that its finally november.....no more "is it november yet" !!! *bells ringing*

Exactly!!!! And it did kinda of come fast, thank you November! lol

i feel as though there should be a party..... ;o)
now is it november 20th yet??

YAY!It's really November.I can't believe it..sooo cool

It's amazing!! The time has finally come! lol

I'm so jealous of you guys who get to see the Midnight showing. I chose Friday night instead because I didn't think it would be a good idea to stay up hyped all night and then have to get up with the baby at 6:30 am lol.... I'll be there in spirit...

I had to see it Thurs night.  There is no way I could take everyone talking about it without me.  lol

So jealous you are going Friday night! I am postponing to Sunday or Monday afternoon... Less people in the theater I am hoping...

Yeah... I'm afraid though that I will be haring more screaming than actual dialogue fromt he movie lol.... guess that just means I'll have to go back and see it again =D

And I love the fact that she finally has a nightmare free night

Bella seems to have this subconscious intuition about the future. I don't think she was intentionally using Jacob, more that she subconsciously knew she needed him and he would save her (in more than one way).

I'm on chapter 12 because I just can't put it down for the 20th time (yes I have actually read them 20+ times). but I really need to slow down because I don't want to be in the middle of eclipse when New Moon comes out.

OMG I totally agree. Bella has the most active subconscious and it is all the time telling her things even though she doesn't realize it at the time. I think that Bella was drawn to Jake and Jake to her because of two things: Bella needed him to get out of her personal pit and Renesmee. God, fate, the universe, whatever you want to say, knew that this was what was going to happen and pulled them together.

Ok this is the first time I've written that theory down. It sounds kinda out there on paper. lol

definitely fate!!!!
this theory makes her whole relationship with Jacob in eclipse bearable because if I had Edward...hmmm I like that thought- oh sorry, if I had Edward I wouldn't look twice at Jacob even though he's incredibly hot.

Jacob seems soooo differeent then after he changes! I like him way better this way 11th!!!!! Ha! Aorry this is exciting for me

Hmm, when is Twitter going to announce this is here?

EDIT:
I love the foreshadowing. How high Bella has to reach to high 5 Jake! LOL

The family dinner is the one thing that SM gets right about NA life! The everyone gets together to eat thing happens constantly with all of the NA families I know. They seriously live with the more the merrier attitude and EVERYONE cramming into a space, no matter how small. I was disappointed there was no drumming but not surprised. SM admits she didn't research the NA way of life. Drumming at a gathering like that is like breathing - totally necessary. A drum group singing the traditional songs with a hand drum or a regular group drum is amazing. I hope you get to experience that some time...

I love the description of Leah - It is the description I would use to describe one of my good Abenaki friends... I think she is on the phone with sam, i also think this is near the Sam imprint thing because it all starts to happen fast! We know Jared is the first to imprint (this book) and Sam is the second - causing the break up with Leah and the scaring of Emily... Wish that was in here too!

AND of course the ever impending Harry is headed for a heart attack is here!

Such a busy good chapter!

Would have been better if Bella had tripped out in the dark woods and broke a bone (SNICKER) - YES I AM JOKING! (I would have been happy with a black eye... LMAO)

Hey there,

Sam and Emily Imprinted a little more that a year. Check pg 340 in NM. This is where Charlie explains the "story" about what happened to Emily's face. Sam is actually the first to have imprinted.

"Mauled by a bear, up north during salmon spawning season-- horrible accident. It was more than a year ago now..."

BTW, which characters do you like in the books?

I am aware of that comment but SM states that she did not pay attention to those facts in her books. She admits to screwing with the wolf time line and admits to inconsistancies. The first 3 wolves per her legand start phasing around the same time. That is why there is so much confusion around the others phasing. Until this group of shape shifters there were always only 3 shape-shifters at a time.

Sam IS the second to imprint, not the first. Jared is the first.

Start your own time line as each point comes out in this and the next book. You will see the errors. I did when i was doing research for my FF on Sam/Leah/Emily. It happens between Jared imprinting (which was around November) and Bella finding out about the wolves, which is VERY soon...

Where does SM state that she did not pay attention to these facts?? I ask because she talks about being very careful of creating a world where things match up and make sense at a Q&A. This you can find at twilightlexicon.com (see author correspondence)

I will look for it again.

I know that Twilight Lexicon is where I found that Jared imprinted first - I was surprised because I had honestly thought it was Sam...

I will probably attach in another thread as once these get too long I have trouble finding them...

So keep an eye out on further chapters. I will find it or admit I dreamt it... Best I can do at the moment...

its the first time we get to met the Legend and heroin that is Leah the bad@ss wolf!!

(((Would have been better if Bella had tripped out in the dark woods and broke a bone (SNICKER) - YES I AM JOKING! (I would have been happy with a black eye... LMAO)...*))

i think LEah has rubbed of on us!!..lool cause i am all for that comment!!..

I really love Quil and Embry. I kind of wish we could have gotten a little more of the boys pre transformation because they just seem so fun together.
Forget those crazy forks humans...Bella should have been hanging out at the Res the whole time.

ahhh man i was so close

"If either of you set so much as one toe on my land tomorrow...." LOL
or
"I woke shuddering,my scream muffled by the pillow" "cry"

*laughs hysterically* that is my fave... and I love how that is the first time Bella actually laughs since Edward =D

See that is why I was peeved that Leah and Seth were not included because they were at the spagehtti party plus the fact that Harry is their father, and I wanted to see their devastation when they learned their dad was dead.

awee.. i dont have my book with me here.. :(
but, from what i remember, and from whats mentioned in the post..

i liked when the boys came over to the garage too, teased jacob and what not..

ugh.. i totally don't remember any details..
i'll post again later when im back at my apt..

i'm on

OMG im in the top ten!!!! Chap 6...well...Edward is gone...so i pretty much was in a huge depression until pg 451...But I luv Quil and Embry here... Sam hasn't gotten a hold of them yet...and Bella finally got some sleep!!!

Yes, yes, yes... the scene in the garage with Jake, Bella, Quil, and Embry is one of my faves during the "where the heck is Edward period." I love their inside jokes and silent exchanges they do. Hilarious. Love Jakes reaction when Bella leaves too.... so freakin funny =D

i really liked the innocent, non werewolves part of new moon :) it was pretty fun, and cute to see jake flirting but not in love with bella

me tooo! :D

it seemed so happy, and not drama-rific :) then jake got werewolfy and things were unfun again :( poor bella....

:)

7th!!!

Hhmmmm....I think Bella was exstremely desperate. She needed something, anything to help ease her pain. Jacob was someone who did this. He took her mind off the pain, and was also not so bad to be around either.

Perhaps Bella uses him at first, but she ends up loving him like a brother. She loves to seem him smile, and generally wants him to be happy. It's only when Edward comes back where it makes things complicated between them.

Yes no action in this chapter, but it is wonderful as it shows us the world of the werewolves. Bella's replacement family since the Cullens are gone. Again, it makes the decision to leave Jacob and his world for Edward's so much more difficult. :(

Though I feel for Jacob and love him...Bella is supposed to be with Edward. And I think Jake always knew that, but he's Jacob, he had to try. :)

I think Jacob knew! He knew that she was going through a really hard time and wanted to be the one to help her through it.

Bella always used Jacob. but she was too depressed, desperate and needy to realize how repulsively self-ish and self absorbed she was being.

I suppose. But i think it just started out like that. She ends up loving him and cares whether she hurts him or not. I think she learns her lesson by the end of Eclipse.

no better way to explain it but the way you did it! a hundred percent with all the things you said, and Jake so happy to have bella all for himself, no cullens around...

Thanks!  I'm glad you enjoyed my little analysis.  lol

Very well put! My sentiments exactly!

Thanks! :)

Please stop calling them werewolves.

Werewolves change on the full moon and have no self control.

They are shape shifters who share brother wolfs form...

I know what you mean. I think that some people are just so used to calling them werewolves because all through the series you did. It wasn't until the end of Breaking Dawn that it was clear they were shapeshifters.

It bothers me too sometimes, but I try to focus on other things to disagree with! ... like our conversation the other day. LOL That was much more fun.



p.s. sorry I havent written back yet, my attention span isn't very good today.

I think we are doing just fine. Better chapters are to come...

EDIT: shape shifters.

For some reason, whenever I hear that term, I think of a blob like Ditto on Pokemon and the blob just changes into things. lol

But shape shifters it will be. haha :)

Thank you CJ!!!! you are awesome!!!

Yes but that is what they branded themselves as.

Please show me the page that Jake or any of the other wolves say Werewolf in refference to themselves and I will show you the page where Edward defends them as shape shifters to the Volturi in book 4...

Somewhere in breaking dawn im sure Bella says "so there are real werewolves then?" and then Jacob says something like "what am i?" (and this is after they've been told they're shape shifters)

I know the correct term is shape shifter, but on p. 306 in NM Bella asked Jacob "Could you... well, try not to be a ... werewolf?" Jake doesn't correct her and say "No, we aren't werewolves, Bella, we're Shape shifters". He answers her by throwing his hands up and and shouts "Like I have a choice about it!"
And in Eclipse as Edward is explaining the shape shifting, wolf Jacob shrugs his shoulders like 'I have no idea what he is talking about'.
Just playing Devils advocate here. They can call themselves whatever they want :)

playing devil's advocate is so much fun =D ......
Yeah who cares what they call themselves... if I morphed into a gigantic wolf I believe I'd have the right to call myself whatever too.... besides, people know werewolves, people don't necessarily know what a shapeshifter is

I could be wrong but when the Volturi first think they are werewolves and Edward explains they're not, weren't the wolves actually surprised to hear that? Or was that just Bella surprised to hear that? lol I slept way too little last night.. not thinking coherently
*slaps face to wake up* haha

Everyone here has brought valid points to the table. Let me add to the Shape-shifter preference by stating that in Eclipse the elders tell the story of Taha Aki and the shape shifters, not werewolves. The truth is told to those at the bonfire - Where they joke about swallowing a cow whole...

Page 344, "Is that one of those wolf things?" I asked him, "the heat I mean."

And page 293 per Jake, "Another legend claims we are descended from wolves - and that the wolves are our brothers still. It is against tribal law to kill them." He then searches for the correct term, same page, "You see, the cold ones are the natural enemies of the wolf - well, not the wolf really, but the wolves that turn into men, like our ancestors. You would call them werewolves."

So yes the term is used but it is used incorrectly. Jake does not seem to know the correct term. I will go back and look at the chapter in Twilight where Bella looks more closely at the legend when she is researching vamps.

It looks like we all score points here. But werewolf IS incorrect. The correct terms are wolf and werewolf. The silly teen aged Jake gets it wrong. Wasn't someone looking for Jake flaws. Here is one. If he had paid attention to the legends then he would have known the correct term as well and wouldn't have made the mistake.

Also (and I hate admitting to this one) Bella knows they are not werewolves and says to Alice on page 386 "sort of werewolf" and "turns into wolves when there are vampires around" Bella's stupid intuition again

(there I said a good thing about Bella - is everyone happy now??)

LOL

Oh... the heat! ahhhh!*sigh*

you are correct. When edward refers to them as shapeshifters, bella looks at jacob like what you re not werewolves. and jacob shrugs like i have no idea what edward is talking about. Even aro said that though they think of themselves as werewolves they are not. they re shapeshifters. So it seems to me that they see themselves as werewolves

I like how similar yet different the Cullens and the Wolves are both are families, yet the only difference I see is that one has money and the other doesn't.

There are similarities

In both the wolf pack/trib and the Cullen family -

1.no 0ne has to be blodd related to be family
2. both 'packs' will do anything to protect a tribe member
3.both have mythical odities (come on -shapeshifting and vampire)
4. both have links to the forks community as a whole and the swans as individuals
5. Daddy c and Sam are both good leaders and loving older 'brothers'
6. Each has a fun loving Emmit/Embry n Seth member
7. Each has a volitile member Jazz lets not forget the birthday incident) and Paul
8. Each has a bitter member Leah and Rose

Anyone else want to add in here?

9)..jake and Alice's friendly nature!! they would do anything and everything for their families and those whom they love!!..

10) Bella, third wife and Emily, the wolf and vamp girls, the humans who they protect but end up saving the mythical creatures in their own little way!!..they are the heroins of the stories!!

where does, Edward's tense, virtue, moral, emo, self loathing come in!!

Ummmm...

11. Pigheaded men - Jake and Edward.


LOL AND yes by pigheaded I mean Jake REFUSING to let go and Edward always thinking he knows best.

OMG!!! That is so true LOL Men (even fake ones) are all the same

There are similarities, yet differences with them. But I love them both. For me, the Cullens are just more interesting...I don't know why, but I just like them more.

Some people think people are Team this or that cause of their preferences for either vampire or werewolf, but I don't think that is it. :)

For me, the Cullens are just more interesting.
I 2nd That.

Thanks!  :)

LOL I was going to say your first paragraph only inserting wolf where the word Cullen appears!

LOL VIVA OUR DIFFERENCES (I don't speak other languages. Sorry it sounds funny)

Yes, though we are different, I love my wolf girls! :)

5???

dang i AM SO BEHIND!!!!

Okay I have to go to work but I just wanted to let you guys know my costume worked out... lol

because I know I was complaining to everyone about not being able to get my contacts in!

I will post a pic soon... gotta go to work.
Miss you all!
OHHH look at that I am 5th!!!! YOWSA..... *unicorn confetti*

I have always gotten the impression Bella didnt mean to let Jacob think they would ever be more than friends in NM .... but in Eclipse... I was not happy with her LOL

ughh i was soo pissed with bella in eclipse
you have edward, you fool!

agreed! shes got the hotest vamp on her arm, and shes all depressed, and i just wanna slap her and tell her to LET JACOB DOWN EASILY :)

She never does that does she?

Jake and Edward let her down easily that Jake is no longer in love with her but imprinted on her daughter...

in my opinion, she keeps dragging it out with jake, in turn hurting him :( poor jake isn't entirely sure of bella. because bella doesnt want to give up the two guys in her life, i think she shouldve told jake earlier, so she didn't cause him all that pain :(

I love this wave length you have going on!

Ditto to your thought!!!

She couldn't let him down earlier. She was too busy worrying about what would happen to her if she didn't have him anymore. I love Bella but she pissed me off at times too.

yup... and even when Edward "thought" he was doing the right thing he made a huge mess of everything... ugghh is there no hope? lol

That is the human nature of things when we want to fix things, we only make it worse, and that what happened with the Bella and Jake situation.

True but than we wouldn't had a story.

well blame SM for making Bella bipolar. shakes heads.

She is not bipolar. She is selfish. Have you ever met anyone who is bipolar? I have worked with bipolar people and she is not. Nor is she multi personality disorder. She is selfish.

Here we go again, Bella is the selfish one and Jake can't do know wrong, When Jake Knew all along, she was never going to leave Edward, I'm sorry that Jake did not have the ball$$ to kick Bella out of his life, he kept coming back for more.

Neither of these characters are saint so quit putting Jakey on a Pedestal, because he is FAR from perfect.

where not saying Jake is perfect!!.. you have to remember Jake is still a kid, and bella wasnt letting him go, he knew Bella loved edward but he also knew bella loved him too!!
she wouldnt let him go, so he thought he still had a chance and he wasnt going to give up hope, he was going to fight for his love, even if he knew he wont get the girl in the end, he still had to try...he didnt wanna live with himself and knowing what if he tried harder!!....and he says that eclipse aswell..
he stopped trying the minute Bella came to him at the end of Eclipse and told him he loved him, but she just couldnt live without Edward, she loved Edward more....thats when Jacob stepped down!!..so you can see she dragged it too much, the moment she told him he didnt have a chance, he stopped.

I never said Jake could do no wrong! (Look at that comment... It is all about Bella - no Jake mentioned)

He screws up pretty good!

Sam is the guy on the pedestal along with Daddy C....

Jake is flawed! and you are right he needed to let that selfish girl go!

WOOT WOOT!!!
my love, you have said everything i couldn't.

I don't think Bella was intent on using him, she just wanted someone to fix the bikes and teach her riding lessons, and she did enjoy spending time with him but all Bella felt for Jake was friendship.

Yet even in Twilight she admits to using him. She knew full and well in NM that Jake liked her and she had no issues using that to her advantage - she is selfish with her intents with him in all 4 books...

Let's admit it. ALL, well most, characters in these books have problems with their own selfishness getting in the way of what is best for everyone. I think thats one reason people love and can relate to them so much. We're all selfish at times.

I love how insightful you are today...

3nd ^^

i'm so busy with school, i have to catch up.

2nd! :D

I don't think that Jacob knew at the beginning that Bella was using him..
Only after he became his depressed and pessimistic wolf-self he started realizing that..
But when he started realizing that, she was stopping with the using him and actually liking his company.. ¬¬

I disagree. She calls him her own personal sun. She won't let him stop seeing her because she doesn't deal with her issues and uses Jake continually as a distraction. She is consistently cruel to him and never ever stops using him.

I feel bad for Jake because your first crush should be someone who eventually stops using you... He only gets to see healthy relationships through his pack and the Cullens - He never gets to experience one himself. SO SAD!

I agree with you LWNV, but I think Jacob chooses to be used. I just got through reading the chapter where he goes with Bella and Mike to see the movie, and Bella tells him straight up she'll never love him in that way, and he says it doesn't matter, it's HIS problem to worry about.

So...while I am pretty durn upset that Bella continues to use Jacob for 3 books, he accepts it!

LOL 4 books

Twilig ht *bats eyes* Please tell me the vamp story
NM *from depression* please build my bike and be my own personal sun
Eclipse *From Eddie's arms* Please climb in my sleeping bag you hormal teenager and keep me warm
BD *From Cullen Couch* Don't leave me Jake! Don't leave me Eddie! WTF do you mean he loves my daughter and not me????

LOL

All I can say is, they're fictional characters...it isn't real. People all have different opinions and ours aren't the same. So, I agree to disagree on this issue.


Aaaand, Sing.

LOL My bad! I don't watch SNL anymore...

Bye!

OK.

What are we singing? I like the coke song, "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony..." (sung VERY off key and flat voice - sorry I am a bad singer...)

Maybe you have a song to teach me?

Um...no. It's an SNL (Saturday Night Live) thing where they say "And Sing" at the end of every skit. That was me signaling the end of that conversation...

Jake is glutton for punishment. He just keeps going back for more. She hurts him and he keeps going back. Although I will always love Edward, I do feel bad for Jake. I just think he keeps thinking she might one day choose him and thats why he keeps going back.

You have a point...
I knew I would say crap when trying to comment without having reread the chapter ¬¬ LOL
I had forgotten that she never stops using him indeed..
That's really sad for Jake..

I know ... 4 books of being used. sigh.... so sad....

Do you guys think in Eclipse she was using him? I would definitly say in New Moon but after Edward was back and she ran away from Alice at school, i think that she actually wanted to spend time with him and had no reason to use him, other than feeling like she's losing a friend because of her boyfriend.

In book 4 BD i would say she had no control over her use in him because of the love connection(imprinting) he was feeling for Renesmee.

Tell me????

LOL I am totally biased against Edward because I thought she had fun running away from Eddie and Alice with the surprise visit to La Push! LOL and then I thought she was using him to exert her independence when Eddie became too controlling! I am so glad for this now because I am going to try and read this through your eyes! LMAO

If you read Stephenie Meyer's website, she explains that Bella IS in love with Jacob. Not as much as she is in love with Edward, but (I kow this makes some people mad, but it's straight from SM's mouth) she is IN LOVE with Jacob. And she fell in love with Jacob in New Moon, but was too distraught to realize it. She'd only been in love once, with Edward, and it was a sweep you off your feet, obsessive love, so she didn't recognize a "normal" being in love like she was with Jacob. So even though she does start out using Jacob in NM, she does fall in love with him. Which is why she is so conflicted in Eclipse and sneaking off to see him and can't give him up.

I can see how Bella would fall in love with Jacob. It would be so easy to do. He is such a warm, nice, and passionate person. She just loved Edward first and Jake could never really catch up to him. LIke you said it was that first love, sweet you off your feet versus a normal love. She didnt really know what was happening.

Yeah i know. She did love him and admitted to that in Eclipse. But, before she didn't know that and was doing stuff to still be near him. I think that she was hopping he would see their feelings were not the same and relent to being friends. When he finally got that, he didn't want anything to do with her after that and i think she knew that's how it was going to be.

He ran away for a long time and only came back for the wedding but didn't attend the wedding and of course was there when she returned from the honey moon just to see if the Cullens changed her so he could go to war with Edward.

I agree with you...I think Bella knowingly used Jacob in NM, but in Eclipse she really did just want to be his friend. But she did realize he wanted more yet continued to use him for friendship...and she knew she was hurting him yet still continued...I don't know. Bella's crazy, j/k! ;-)

Yeah that's true. She wanted friendship but she knew he wanted more and continued witout setting it clear. I think she was afraid to hurt his feelings and ultimately losing his friendship.

It is sad and I do kind of feel bad for Jake because of that. BUT, that said, he doesn't have to be a jerk in Eclipse... =D But were he more sensitive he would not be our Jake.

So he doesn't have a right to be angry after being used? You don't think there might be just a *little* resentment? I think he's totally justified in being angry (see name ;)
It's actually good to see IMO, he needs to defend himself emotionally or he will become like Bella.

I think he does. He has every right to be upset. Bella pretty much led him on knowingly and then after what Edward did, she still took him back and he couldn't understand that. I love Jacob's intensity that he has, it totally makes his character.But in my opinion it was a little overboard in Eclipse. I mean Edward at least attempted to see things in Jake's perspective. Jake wasn't as understanding..

at least he got happiness in the last one.. with imprinting on Renesmee and stuff.. :)

I agree with you LWNV. I think Jake new all along that she was using him to make her feel better. Later in NM, Jake asks Bella why she always hugs her chest, tells her that he notices how much it hurts her to hear his name, and lots of other small stuff like that. I think Jake knows but maybe wants to think that although her initial reason for being with him was to ease her pain over Edward, that she would come around and really want to be with him and just that.

excellent point.

i am a little late on this one. i haven't even started the book yet! i was finishing up another book that i was reading but plan on starting New Moon tonight. so i am sure that I can catch up quickly, seeing how when i start these books i can't put them down! lol

congrats on first! :D
your avi is HOT! :D

thanks. i am powerless before that shirtless man <3

LOL